A Me e t i n g of th e In s titu te of P etroleum was held a t M anson House, 26 P o rtla n d Place, L ondon, W . 1, on W ednesday, M arch 14th, 1945, Professor F. H . Ga r n e r, P resident, being in th e Chair.
The Pr e s i d e n t said th a t th e p resen t m eeting was a special sta n d a rd ization m eeting, th e papers to be read covering some of th e m ain subjects w hich th e S tan d ard izatio n C om m ittee were a t present discussing.
The following p ap er was th e n re ad b y th e a u th o r :
“ Some A spects of S tan d ard izatio n in Oil M easurem ent,” by H . Hyam s (Fellow). (See pp. 339-342.)
D IS C U S S IO N .
Mb. J . S. Ja c kso n sa id h e h a d b e en a sto n ish ed to fin d t h a t th e re w as no real law la id d o w n fo r a t a n k w ith a b o tto m w h ich m o v ed . S h o u ld n o t som e definite con
c lusion b e a rriv e d a t a s to w h e th e r th e y sh o u ld h a v e a w a te r b o tto m o r n o t ? Mb. Hyams re p lied t h a t th e y w ere n o t c o m p u lso ry h ere, th o u g h th e y m ig h t be so in o th e r co u n tries. I t w as n o t u n u su a l, p a rtic u la rly in th is c o u n tr y , for gasoline ta n k s to h a v e w a te r b o tto m s, to a v o id tro u b le in gau g in g , a n d i t h a d b een comm on p ra c tic e d u rin g th e w a r to h a v e larg e w a te r b o tto m s, to m in im ize e v a p o ra tio n losses.
So fa r a s h e w as aw are, th e re w ere no e x is tin g law s in sistin g on w a te r b o tto m s , and w h ilst in c e rta in c irc u m stan c es su ch w a te r b o tto m s w ere usefu l, th e re w ere other good reaso n s fo r re sistin g c o m p u lso ry w a te r b o tto m s.
Th e Pr e s id e n t a sk e d how f a r t h e b o tto m o f th e t a n k m o v ed .
M b. P . Ke r r (rep ly in g to th e la s t q u e stio n ) sa id t h a t th e id e a t h a t th e b o tto m of a ta n k w as m o v in g w as p u t fo rw a rd m o re o fte n th a n w as n ecessary . W h en errors in m e a su re m e n t o c cu rre d th e su g g estio n w as m a d e t h a t th e b o tto m w as moving.
T h a t th e y d id so m etim es m ove w as c e rta in , b u t he th o u g h t th e su g g estio n w as p u t fo rw a rd m o re o fte n th a n th e c irc u m s ta n c es w a rra n te d . T h e fo u n d a tio n s o f a tan k h a d to b e p a rtic u la rly b a d o r th e o rig in al s ta b ility m u s t h a v e failed in som e way b efore th e b o tto m co u ld m o v e to a n y g r e a t e x te n t. H e co u ld re m e m b e r a ta n k in S h an g h ai w here th e b o tto m m o v ed u p a n d dow n, b u t p ro o f t h a t th e b o tto m was m o v in g w as seldom o b ta in e d . T h e o b je c tio n to p u ttin g w a te r in w as t h a t unless th e ta n k w as fo r use fo r w a te r d isp lac em e n t sto ra g e i t w a ste d sp ace fo r oil and in creased th e c o st o f sto rag e. L ikew ise th e p resen ce o f w a te r in cre ased th e ra te of ru stin g .
Mr. A. R . Javes th e n read his pap er :
“ S ulphur E stim atio n b y L am p M ethod U sing I.P . T est 107/45 (T),” by A. R . Jav es, B.Sc., F .R .I.C . (See pp. 343-346.)
D IS C U S S IO N .
Th e Pr e s id e n t said t h a t it w as a h a p p y th o u g h t o f S ta n d a rd iz a tio n S ub -C o m m ittee N o. 3 to p re s e n t a p a p e r w h en a p p a r a tu s su ch a s h a d b een u sed fo r so m a n y y ears w as rep laced b y a n ew piece o f a p p a ra tu s . T h e degree o f a c c u ra c y w h ic h co u ld be o b ta in e d w ith th e p re s e n t piece o f a p p a r a tu s w ould p e rh a p s com e a s a su rp rise to som e m em bers.
SPE C IA L ST A N D A R D IZ A T IO N M E E T IN G : D IS C U S S IO N . 359 D r . E . B . Evans d id n o t th in k h e co u ld a d d v e ry m u ch to th e ex cellen t p ic tu re given b y th e a u th o r o% the b ack g ro u n d o f th is new m e th o d a n d th e n ecessity fo r its intro d u ctio n . Sub -C o m m ittee N o. 3, like th e o th e r S ub-C om m ittees, h e s ita te d to introduce y e t f u r th e r m eth o d s o f te s tin g or to a lte r ex istin g ones unless co n v in ced th a t it w as re a lly essential. I t h a d been done in th is case o n ly because th e y w ere convinced t h a t th e o ld I .P . a n d A .S.T.M . m eth o d s w ere n o t a d e q u a te for low s u lp h u r contents. T h e A .S.T.M . also h a d re c e n tly fo u n d i t n ecessary to d isc ard th e ir old m ethod, a n d h a d n o w in tro d u c e d one w hich, lik e th e n ew I .P . m e th o d , in v o lv es burning th e sam ple in p urified air. T h e A .S.T.M ., how ever, use b o th a d ifferen t lam p a n d a d ifferen t w o rking-up p ro c ed u re fro m th o se w hich h a v e b een described b y Mr. Javes.
Mb. J . S. Jackson re m a rk e d t h a t th e A p p a ra tu s C o m m ittee fe lt t h a t th e ch im n ey was a com plex piece o f w ork a n d v e ry fragile. G round-glass jo in ts b etw een th e chim ney a n d w a te r ja c k e t m ig h t p e rh a p s b e trie d if i t w o u ld n o t in te rfe re w ith th e accu racy o f th e te s t.
Mia. Javes rep lied t h a t th e y h a d n o t fo u n d th e a p p a ra tu s fragile, a n d a f te r th e first d a y th e o p e ra to r soon fo u n d t h a t h e co u ld h a n d le i t ; th e re h a d b e en v e ry few breakages w ith it, a lth o u g h th e y h a d a larg e n u m b e r o f sets in o p e ratio n . I f th e y used a ground-glass jo in t a t th e to p h e th o u g h t i t w ou ld cause tro u b le . T h a t p a r t o f th e a p p a ra tu s becam e v e ry h o t, a n d th e jo in ts w ould b in d u p , o r th e y m ig h t b reak .
M r. J . S. Jackson p o in te d o u t t h a t h e h a d been th in k in g p rim a rily o f th e p erso n who m a n u fa c tu re d a n d d eliv ered th e a p p a ra tu s .
M r. Javes said t h a t a fo rm o f c h im n e y w h ich h a d been u se d fo r a long tim e w as one in w h ich th e w a te r-ja c k e t w as h e ld in p lac e o ver th e o u tle t tu b e o f th e ch im n ey b y m ean s o f ru b b e r stoppers. R e ce n tly , how ever, th e firm m a n u fa c tu rin g th e a p p ara tu s h a d su p p lied som e ch im n ey s w ith th e w a te r-ja c k e t sealed d ire c tly to th e ou tlet tu b e , a n d th ese h a d p ro v e d to b e v e ry sa tisfac to ry .
The following pap er was th e n read by th e au th o r :
“ Stability of F uel Oil,” by W . E. J . Broom, Ph.D ., B.Sc. (Fellow). (See pp. 347-352.)
D IS C U S S IO N .
Th e Pr e s id e n t said t h a t th e p a p e r illu s tra te d th e large a m o u n t o f w ork w hich h a d to be done in developing a new m e th o d o f te s tin g . T he p rim a ry concern h a d been th e rep ro d u c ib ility o f th e te s t, a n d th e q u e stio n o f c o rrelatio n in a c tu a l p ractic e form ed only a sm all p a r t o f th e w ork so far.
M e. A . R . Sta r k re m a rk e d t h a t h e h a d n o th in g to a d d to th e p a p er, b e y o n d saying th a t th e w o rk so fa r h a d b een confined to p ro d u c in g re p ro d u c ib le la b o ra to ry tests.
I f th e y w ere w o rking o n th e rig h t lines th e te s ts w ould co rre late w ith practice, b u t if a n y te s t failed to c o rrelate w ith p ra c tic e i t could n o t be sa tisfac to ry . H e fe lt t h a t it w as necessary, th erefo re, to av o id p u ttin g a n y th in g fo rw ard fo r ad o p tio n befo re th ere h a d b een a n o p p o rtu n ity to s tu d y co rrelatio n w ith p ra ctic e . W ith re g a rd to th e H o t F iltra tio n te s t it w ould p ro b a b ly be som e considerable tim e before it could be sa id t h a t i t m e a n t a n y th in g .
M r. C. S. Win d e b a n k ask e d w h e th er th e P a n e l h a d considered th e p o ssib ility of using th e U .S . N a v y H e a te r te s t a s a m ea n s o f m easu rin g storage s ta b ility .
Dr. Broom rep lied t h a t th e te s t h a d b e e n considered fro m th is view p o in t. A suggestion h a d b een m ad e t h a t th e U .S. N a v y u sed th e H e a te r te s t to in d ic a te sto rag e sta b ility , b u t in q u iries h a d a sc ertain e d t h a t su ch in fa c t w as inco rrect.
M r. J . S. Jackson h o p ed t h a t people w o u ld be p a tie n t w ith th e X y le n e E q u iv a le n t te s t, because h e b elieved t h a t i t h a d p o ssibilities so long as i t w as n o t e x p ec te d to
360 SPE C IA L S T A N D A R D IZ A T IO N M E E T IN G : D IS C U S S IO N .
a n sw er ev ery qu estio n . I t d id to u c h th e fu n d a m e n ta l s ta b ility , a n d i t d id n o t ta k e to o long to c a rry o u t.
R e g ard in g th e U .S. N a v y H e a te r te s t, h e w o u ld give one w o rd o f w arn in g . T h a t p a rtic u la r te s t h a d given ex ce llen t re su lts, b u t to h is m in d t h a t p ra c tic a l p erfo rm an ce te s t w as a n ad m issio n o f fa u lt. I t m e a n t t h a t one d id n o t k n o w w h a t one w an ted to do w h en one d id n o t kn o w w h a t w as cau sin g tro u b le . T h a t w as a n ad m issio n of fa u lt, a n d if th e ir A m erican frien d s co u ld be p e rsu ad e d to fo rg et t h a t a p p a ra tu s a lto g e th e r a n d beg in ag ain , a sa tis fa c to ry te s t m ig h t b e o b tain e d .
M b. P . Ke r r th o u g h t t h a t th e p a p e r h a d d o n e o th e r P a n e ls m u c h good, since it show ed t h a t a ll h a d th e ir ow n difficulties to overcom e. H e to o k i t t h a t th e articles w ere so m etim es electrified a n d t h a t differences in ra te s o f s e ttle m e n t m ig h t therefore b e a n tic ip a te d .
D b . Bboom said h e th o u g h t som e ty p e s o f p o te n tia l se d im e n t w ere electrically ch arg ed , b u t no w o rk h a d y e t b een c arried o u t o n th o se lines. I t d id seem t h a t the d e n sity a n d v isc o sity o f th e oil h a d q u ite a lo t to do w ith th e r a te a t w hich the p a rtic le s s e ttle d . I t h a d , o f course, b e en v e ry difficult to w o rk on p ro b lem s o f this k in d , a n d h is ow n feeling w as t h a t th e y h a d n o t y e t g o t th e ir te e th p ro p e rly into th e p ro b lem .
Lt.-Co l. H . F . Jo nes said t h a t th e su rp rise to h im w as n o t th e occasional dis
c rep an cy , b u t th e co n sid erab le ag re e m e n t in th e re s u lts o b ta in e d b y th e P an el.
A ssu m in g a te s t w as w a n te d , one sh o u ld in tro d u c e a re as o n a b ly so u n d m ethod, a n d th e n people w ould ta k e in te re s t a n d see to i t t h a t a good te s t w as forthcom ing.
T h e U .S. N a v y h e a te r te s t in a cc ele ratin g w o rk o n th is s u b je c t h a d do n e m u ch to ju s tify itself. H e th o u g h t th e a u th o r ’s feelings t h a t i t m ig h t ta k e y e a rs to co-ordinate th e h e a te r te s t a p p a r a tu s re su lts w ith a c tu a l re s u lts in p ra c tic e w as p e rh a p s a little p essim istic. S u rely n o one e x p ec te d e x a c t co rre latio n . I f th e m e th o d em ployed w ou ld r a te m o st fuel oils in th e sam e o rd e r o f fa ilu re o r success a s en co u n tered in a c tu a l sto rag e, th e n th e m e th o d w as w o rth f u r th e r co n sid era tio n w ith a view to its b ein g a d o p te d a s a te n ta tiv e s ta n d a rd m e th o d .
Db. Bboom said t h a t th e y w ere n o t tr y in g to g e t th e te s t p u b lis h ed as a standard m eth o d . W h en th e P a n e l w as fo rm ed th e y h a d b een to ld b y th e m a in standardizing b o d y w h a t th e y w ere to in v es tig a te , a n d t h a t w as w h a t th e y h a d done.
M b. A. R . Sta r k a sk e d w h e th er th e u se o f co p p er p ip in g co u ld h a v e a n y effect on the re p ro d u c ib ility o f resu lts.
D r . Bboom rep lied t h a t h e d id n o t th in k so. A c e rta in e x p e rim e n t w hich they h a d c arried o u t h a d show n no effect, a n d if th e re h a d b e en a c a ta ly tic effect, th e oil u sed w ou ld p ro b a b ly h a v e g iv en a differen t re su lt.
Me. J . S. Jackson th e n read th e following pap er :
“ The Problem of D evising Tests for Soil S tab ilizatio n ,” b y L. G. Gabriel, B.Sc. (Fellow). (See pp. 353-355.)
D IS C U S S IO N .
Th e Pr e s id e n t said t h a t th is w as a new v e n tu re o n th e p a r t o f th e S ta n d ard iza tio n C o m m ittee, a n d it w as e v id e n t t h a t th e S u b -C o m m ittee co n cern ed w ere dealing w ith a v e ry difficult p ro b lem .
Mb. Javes a sk e d w h e th e r a n y effo rt h a d b een m a d e to m ak e w a te r ab so rp tio n te s ts o n th e sp o t w ith o u t ta k in g th e soil a w ay .
Mr. J . S. Jackson sa id th is w ou ld n o t b e possible, as th e tr e a te d soil w as in v ariab ly h ig h ly w a te r rep ellen t. A c tu a lly no p e rce p tib le a b so rp tio n o f w a te r w o u ld occur for som e days. T h e o n ly h o p efu l p ro ced u re w as to w ith d ra w a p o rtio n o f th e com p a c te d tr e a te d soil w ith th e m in im u m a m o u n t o f d istu rb a n c e , tr im i t ro u g h ly into c y lin d rical form , a n d expose i t to w a te r in th e u su a l w ay.
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