LT: Could you tell us about your education and about your professional journey to Dutch Space?
“I studied Economics and Mathematics at the University of Groningen, thereafter I went abroad to Canada to study further and do a traineeship. The idea of living and working in Canada was an interesting ex-perience for a year. I came back to Europe to study as an Erasmus student for one year, with a postdoctoral study in Mont-pellier, France, and went to military ser-vice, which was mandatory at that time in Holland. I had a great time there actually. When I started to work, like many students with their first jobs, I was not sure of what I wanted to do and had a broad variety of applications, ranging from very technical companies to banks. Finally, I started to work at a consultancy company and did further studies as a registered accoun-tant. The aim was not to establish a career there, but to gain more work experience, which is very helpful for what I am doing today. I then went to Germany, where I did a consultancy job for DASA, which at that time was Daimler-Benz Aerospace, and
later became DaimlerChrysler Aerospace. They hired me afterwards and I entered DASA’s Mergers and Acquisitions depart-ment. During that time I was working on a deal called Astrium, which was a big merger of three space entities in Europe, the German, French and the British busi-nesses; this was a very International oper-ation. I found myself to be very fortunate to be working in that department as a young professional in those very interest-ing times. Subsequently, I went to Paris at the creation of EADS (European Aeronau-tic Defence & Space Company), which was a merger of all aeronautics business that the Germans, Spanish and the French had. There was still a lot of consolidation going on in Europe: MBDA, the missile company was created. Airbus was also created and emerged as a company. Astrium was cre-ated for the satellite business. I lived in Paris and worked in the headquarters lo-cated there for three years. Then I came back to Germany to work as the head of the office of the CEO of the defence busi-ness, and carried on my work for another three years. As a next step, I joined the former Cassidian, the defence business of
EADS at that time, as the head of technol-ogy, the head of the Eurofighter program and a UAV program.”
LT: As the CEO of Dutch Space, what is your view regarding the competitiveness of Dutch Space compared to European com-panies like OHB of Germany, RUAG of Swit-zerland and Thales Alenia of France?
“First of all, I have to mention that Dutch Space is a 100 percent subsidiary of Airbus Defence and Space. So, we are not posi-tioned in a system integrator role like, for instance, the former Astrium in Toulouse and in Germany obviously are. OHB is defi-nitely positioning itself as the prime inte-grator of the big systems at the same level where Airbus is, so they are competitors with Airbus Defence and Space. Although we are a 100 percent affiliated company of Airbus Defence and Space, I do not see them as a competitor at all: OHB is our customer we deliver to, like we do to all space primes in Europe. So, we have to be careful with defining who our competi-tors are, because competition on that side is not present.
Interview with Arnaud de Jong, CEO
Dutch Space, the largest space company in the Netherlands and part of Airbus
Defence and Space, appointed a new CEO last year. The Leonardo Times sat down
with the CEO Arnaud de Jong for an interview. We discuss his career, developments in
Dutch Space, his take on competition in the commercial space domain and his future
outlook on European and International space markets.
TEXT Jeroen Wink and Lakshmi Rathina Sabbapathy, Editors Leonardo Times, Students Aerospace Engineering
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Thinking about our competition on the subsystem level where we are, e.g. instru-ments, structures and solar panels, we have genuine competitors who are not always comparable companies to Dutch Space, as they might have a diff erent ori-gin or specialization. It is a fact that we have delivered a tremendous number of solar arrays in Europe, despite competi-tion and that we have
managed and will man-age again to export to the United States, where another big competi-tor for solar arrays is lo-cated. The market is re-ally tough in that sense. If we manage to win these contracts again, of which we are convinced, it confi rms that we are
really competitive. It’s quite a transpar-ent market, so apart from meeting the requirements and delivering exactly the product that the customer needs; the only thing that determines if you win a contract is the price. For commercial con-tracts, a Dutch company can compete with American companies and win with a better price, as there are no politics in-volved. What you do need to demonstrate is your reputation and capability of deliv-ering. One needs to convince the custom-er that you have the right qualifi cations to be in this market.”
LT: Regarding competitiveness, are you con-cerned about the rise of private companies like SpaceX?
“We have already started acknowledging that this market is becoming much more commercial. SpaceX is of course a good example. Commercialization is a trend, which is here to stay. At Dutch Space, we
have seen it coming, and we are respond-ing to it, because if you cannot be com-petitive at a commercial level, it is not pos-sible to survive. However, this is not new for us to be honest. People tend to think that only SpaceX is commercial, whereas ESA is also very commercial. Just because there are no competitors from the US, it does not mean that there is no compe-tition in Europe. Fortunately, we have enough competition here. And you need that environment to be on the edge of the technology. It is a continuous race of be-ing in front of others in certain innovative issues, while on the other hand you need
to be able to deliver at a good price. And delivery also concerns being in time, with-in cost limits and deliverwith-ing good quality. If not, the customer will not accept it. The commercialization is already going on.”
LT: Dutch Space is mainly active in Europe but also has projects in the USA. Is Dutch Space also involved in the “emerging” space markets like India, South Korea or China?
“First of all, we are closely monitoring the activities in the emerging coun-tries. We want to focus more on product servic-es and recurring prod-uct delivery. Of course, we see China as a huge market. A market with its challenges, but also one with huge opportuni-ties. We are talking with Chinese represen-tatives on certain products, but of course we have to be careful not handing-over our technology. That does not mean that their market is closed - we are discussing options with them. In China, we were talk-ing about delivertalk-ing somewhat standard products, although nothing is standard in space, but we would still need to adapt certain features to meet the specifi cations of the Chinese customer. Currently, the US is indeed our biggest export market, thanks to our good connections with the large primes there.”
Figure 1. VEGA interstages in the Dutch Space clean room
“
Dutch Space is a 100 percent
subsidiary of Airbus Defence and Space.
However, we deliver our Dutch
high-tech to all space primes in Europe
”
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LT: Are you worried about Intellectual Prop-erty problems in some countries?
“To put it bluntly, we have a core technol-ogy that makes our solar arrays successful, we are truly amongst the top players in the world, for which have protected cer-tain features that guarantee the success of the overall system. As you can imagine, we are not interested in selling these core technologies. I am not willing to sell just one. Even if the technology is protected, it is not about copying as such, I am here to do business. Not to hand-over our blue-prints even if we make some bucks from it.”
LT: New players like China and India are building their own launchers and satellites, they are of course very interested in these technologies.
“Yes, we understand it if they order a solar array, because they are looking for certain technologies for an interesting price. We will reply for sure, under the condition that we can sell it as an entire subsystem. In that case, there would be no diff erence for us whether we sell it to India or to the US or UK. So there is no limitation on that.”
LT: In the space industry, there is a trend in miniaturization with nano and micro sat-ellites. For ex-ample at SSTL (Surrey Satellite Technology), is Dutch Space re-designing their systems for these smaller satellites?
“We are not active in nano satellites, be-cause it is not a big volume market, so the eff ort is not worth the cost. There is certainly a trend towards smaller satel-lites with a large power request. It is one of the areas where we are successful; we won tenders in that fi eld. It is positive to see that the electrical requirements of satellites are increasing. More and more, it comes down to the question how much power you can deliver, hence how good your solar arrays are. Size of the satellite is of course an indication on how much power it consumes, but even the smaller satellites are getting a higher power den-sity, which is more important for us than the mass and volume.
We are still meeting requirements for sat-ellites down to one metric ton in mass. We have won some commercial contracts for these sizes. Of course, the panels are smaller but they are also more of a recur-ring product, which is what we are aiming at. The good thing is that all the experi-ence we have built up over all these years’ fi ts with the market needs. For a commer-cial need, you just need good technology, maybe not even topnotch since it needs to work and there is always a price cap on it. Of course, it is still high-tech, not ob-solete technology in any way. But in the commercial market, the price is the only a discriminating factor.
We are certainly not aiming at providing solar arrays for cubesats, although we did deliver them for the Delfi satellite. Look-ing at the added value of those satellites and the amount of eff ort it takes, for us the focus is to just help and support them. For comparison, it is not comparable to for instance the COTS CRS ISS freight space-ship, equipped with two solar arrays (Cyg-nus capsule-red), because then you are talking business - in terms of complexity, volume and money.”
LT: If you look at the customers of Dutch Space, What is the distribution between commercial, institutional and defence?
“It is always fl uctuating. A few years ago, we had a bit more of commercial clients. And now about two thirds of our revenues are ESA related, 25% is commercial and something like 10% is from defence. That is roughly it. The two-thirds revenue from ESA is quite steady but the commercial revenue is a bit fl uctuating. Defi ning more clearly the commercial revenue, it simply means that there is no intervention of ESA in it. The 10% from defense is a fact for a couple of years already, which is basically the embedded training system of the F-35 for Lockheed Martin. Currently at Airbus, the defence and space segments are be-ing merged together. That also means that our focus on defence will not get
“
People tend to think that only
SpaceX is commercial, whereas
ESA is also very commercial
”
Figure 2. The European Robotic Arm at Dutch Space
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Figure 3. Rosetta’s self-portrait during it’s Mars swingby (fl yby)
lesser. Defence is also a business where you need to have a long breath, not some-thing you can take on in one year.”
LT: What are your plans for International-ization of Dutch Space as it is an Airbus De-fence and Space company?
“We are now in the new business line of electronics, which is one of the four busi-ness lines of the new Airbus Defence and Space organization. We are focusing on products services at a subsystem level, so not the system level where Toulouse and Ottobrunn are. This subsystem level gives us a broad market. For us Airbus is like any other customer, which allows us to also export to others primes like OHB. The second step is that we have com-bined the solar array business that we have here in Leiden, with the solar array expertise we have in Ottobrunn. These are being integrated under my lead. That also means that we are combining strengths, by not re-inventing the wheel but by ap-proaching customers at a clever level. Of course, we also have the brainpower and supply chain power that helps us to adapt to exactly what the customer wants. We can deliver from Germany and from The Netherlands. These are big advantages because we are not comparable. Ottob-run is not comparable to Leiden from the structure point of view but also not from the customer and the technical design point of view. There is a lot of integration going on. It’s a clever approach towards the market.”
LT: What kind of new proposals for Ariane 6 is Dutch Space putting forward to enter ne-gotiations with?
“This I’m not going to answer, because we are in competition! But what I can say, which is not a secret, is that we have a long-lasting reputation from various Ari-ane and Vega projects. It is a clear task to gain a high added value in Holland and
here in Leiden with our off ers. And of course we are not departing completely from what we have done and built-up in the past for the Ariane project. We are still talking about a launcher. It will have all the features of a launcher. Of course, the design will be diff erent, the material will be diff erent, and maybe the timing of the throughput and the output will be diff erent. But we are still talking about a launcher, it will still be launched with a
certain target, with certain specs like mass and volume we need to carry etc. and we will not depart from the heritage that we have. Today, we build launcher thrust frames, which are one the heaviest loaded part of the Ariane 5. The same holds true for the interstage 1/2 of Vega (Figure 1). We’ll look at these parts very carefully in the new design to assess what we can add into that. But I am not going to answer since we have all the sections as we call it and I do not want to make our
competi-tors clever by telling exactly what we are doing. But of course the choice of the technology you are using, will very much infl uence whether you are successful or not.”
LT: What plans do you have for the ERA (Eu-ropean Robotic Arm)?
“Our plan is to fi nally launch it, but that is not up to Dutch Space of course. It was scheduled for this year, but it was postponed. We truly hope that this time the launch will suc-ceed in 2015. I cannot add anything else; ERA is a brilliant ERA project and product (Figure 2), it works but it needs to be launched. Its ready to be delivered and now we are waiting for the launch. It is not under our responsibility but of course, it’s why we are doing it. To be launched - that is the fi nal target.”
LT: The arm was supposed to build the ISS, now it’s fi nished so what is the intent for ERA now?
“The good news is that ISS will be occu-pied for much longer than some people thought. There will be repairs on the ex-terior of the space station to be done and
“
There is certainly a trend
towards smaller satellites
with a large power request
”
Figure 5. Advanced Solar array hinges including the synchronization system Figure 4. Picture of Cygnus taken by the ISS on 29th September 2013
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ERA will play an important role in that. It’s also the risk for cosmonauts of going outside the ISS. It is a fatiguing and po-tentially hazardous task, from which the cosmonauts would be relieved. One could also imagine, that the older the ISS gets, the more you would need a servicing sys-tem like ERA. (It would be used for the ser-vices on the outside and for payload). The work is there. It just needs to be launched, that’s the point.”
LT: Will Dutch Space hire more young people with the expansion of product lines? Would you like to have more collaboration with the Delft University of Technology?
“On your fi rst question, that is defi nitely one of the targets that we are looking at. But not only young people, although be assured that I have nothing against young people. We need certain characters and certain spirit matching with the products and the experience that we have; a team should have the right mix of young and experienced people; also young in terms of mentality. It is indeed one of the tar-gets and it is also one of the success fac-tors we have to keep in mind. However, at the moment we also steering to become a healthy company, in terms of the capacity we need and in terms of how we are doing as a business. On your second question; I am in very good contact with Hester Bijl (Dean, Faculty of Aerospace Engineering, TU Delft) on exactly these questions and in the future, this is not 100% confi rmed yet, I intend to play a more active role in
giving advice to the university, because that is where the talent pool is.”
LT: Where do you see the future of the Euro-pean space industry in another 10 years in terms of Space Exploration?
“That is a very complicated question. You can have multiple answers on that. I still think we are just starting to explore the universe. We are just starting to explore what we know about the place where we live. On Earth, there is continuous, high demand on everything, from the trace gases that you want to measure, to taking measures for a better environment. We, all the billions of people on this planet, still create issues for which space could have the best or cheapest, or most con-stant solution. Exploring the solution is
another answer. We just started; look at Rosetta and our solar arrays (Figure 3). The wakeup call confi rmed that our product delivered power and that our solar pan-els are working under the most severe conditions you can imagine. It is only a small contribution to exploring the uni-verse. Fortunately this quest will continue, because I think we have just begun to understand what needs to be explored. I see a bright future for that. The universe is immense and I think it’s just becoming more and more understood, also taking into account that space adds to the qual-ity of our lives on earth. The more and the better we can understand space and use it for our global challenges, the better it is for our planet, for space industry and of course for Dutch Space.”
Figure 6. Sentinel-1A in the clean room at Dutch Space
Figure 7. Inspecting a Solar Panel in the clean room at Dutch Space
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