by Patricia Chapman & Marcin Zuk.
«April 14, 1997 was a memorable day for the first year students of the English Teacher Training College in Puławy. The classes journeyed to Warsaw by coach for a visit and tour of the American Peace Corps Office. After meeting staff members of the U.S. Peace Corps, and a welcoming address given by Mr John Darrah, PC. Director, the students continued their day with a visit to the American Embassy. Ambassador Nicholas Rey met the group and a lively ąuestion-answer session followed. Excerpts from the session are here included.
1. Is the American Government afraid of a cotd war between Russia and NATO after Poland joins NATO?
No, I do not think so. In fact we feel that the inclusion of countries like Poland in NATO will reduce the potential for cold war. It will limit the likelihood that there will be troubles in this neighbourhood, not only with Russia, but among the countries of Central Europę. The countries of Central Europę, and the Russians, and others, have often used such troubles to create prob-lems, thus creating the Cold War. By reducing these troubles we think there is less likelihood of confrontation between the U.S. and Russia after countries like Poland get into NATO. Now, it is not going to be easy, and it has not been easy to convince the Russians of that. They have concerns about losing their influence in this part of the world but they just have to get used to it and I think they will. I just want to make sure that you are aware that we are moving
steadily forward - no matter what the Russians say. The Helsinki meeting, I think, was a per-fect example of our getting all the things that we wanted, or at least establishing what we would get by NATO enlargement. And I think it was very successful.
2. What do you think about placing nuclear weapons on the territory of the new member states of NATO?
I think it is unnecessary. In fact, the U.S. govern-ment believes it is unnecessary. There is no rea-son to have them, or to change their position to get them closer to your eastern border. There
is no reason to do that and, therefore, I do not think it is a question we should worry about.
In fact, you know that we told the Russians that we have no desire to have nuclear weapons within the new members of NATO. That is for a very good reason: scientifically and physically it makes no sense at all.
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3. What will the US do if Russia definitely says NO to Poland joining NATO, because dur-ing the meetdur-ing of the American and Russian presidents, President Clinton promised Rus-sia aimost whatever President Yeltsin wanted?
I think you are very wrong on that. That is ab-solutely not true. There was one very bad arti-cle written in Poland by somebody who had his preconceived ideas before he went to Helsinki, and perhaps he wrote his article two days before the meeting! I cannot remember what newspa-per that was, but it was terrible. At the meeting, we specifically set out what the pians were for NATO enlargement, and we did not budge a cen-timeter. We made no change. They were exactly the same plans we had before as we have today.
I think the Russians will not say no because the plans are pretty elear. The Russians
contin-ue saying that they understand that NATO will be enlarged. What they want to do is to bargain as much as possible and, so far, they have not succeeded in getting much. If they do say no, we wili say that we are very sorry, but we are moving ahead. In fact, we have been saying that all the way through. So it should not come as a surprise to the Russians, and it will not come as a
sur-prise to the Russians when, in fact, we do en-large NATO. So do not be concerned about that.
4. What were your feelings when you were named Ambassador to Poland- the Mother-land of your ancestors?
It was an absolutely wonderful moment, and I still feel the same way. Every morning I wake up and pinch myself to think that the U.S. gov-ernment actually pays me to do this job. I think I should be paying the U.S. government to do it because it is very exciting to be the repre-sentative of your adopted country, in your home country. It is hard to believe. It is an incredibly wonderful experience and a unique one. I al-ways say to myself that I have been very spe-cially chosen by God to do this work. I do not mean that in a sense of a religious outlook, but I was just very lucky to have this chance. And it did not hurt to have my last name* either.
5. If Russia ever moved toward Poland in an aggressive way, would NATO help Poland?
Absolutely, that is what NATO is about! That is exactly what NATO would do, and we would not need nuclear weapons in Poland. And that is the point I am making - mechanically, physi-cally it is not necessary to use nuclear weapons.
6. Do you think that Polish banks are safe places for us to save our money and should we be worried about investment schemes like those in Albania?
You certainly should not worry about Polish banks because I think the banking system in Poland has now evolved to be very solid. You should always worry about people coming to you with investment schemes, but that is different than investing in a bank. The bank is fine. I think there is a huge difference between what
hap-pened in Albania - the famous Pyramid schemes.
Pyramid schemes like that have existed for years.
They existed in the United States for a long time and, occasionally, even come back and people get taken by them. But there are criminals in every business. Now the very good thing about Poland, one of the things that I am proudest of when I describe Poland to foreign investors, is the very excellent regulations that exist and that are implemented in this country in the financial area - particularly the way the stock market is regulated. The Warsaw Stock Exchange, and the banking system are so regulated that it is far more difficult for there to be widespread criminality here, like the situation in Albania, than in almost any other country in this part of the world. You are very far ahead of the other countries in this region. As far as the regula-tion of the financial market is concerned, and,
in fact, by comparison to the Czechs, you are very far ahead. For the famous Czechs, who are very conservative, and, you would think, finan-cially very sound, have a system without any regulation at all. And they have a lot of prob-lems as a result. But Poland has not had those problems. There was the "Art-B Business" but that was in 1992. Today, with the regulations,
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Corwersation with Ambassador Nicholas ReyOt would be very difficult to do the same kind of scheme. But that is not to say that there will not be people coming to you with ideas about how to be rich in a week, or in a year, or some-thing like that. Thus, when somebody comes with that kind of a scheme, you know it is not sensible. But normal im/estment in this country, I think, will be hugely successful and I would not be worried.
7. How can Poland benefit by joining the EU and at what cost?
Weil, these are two different questions.The bene-fits will be enormous because you will be part
of a very large free trade area. It has been prov-en, over and over again, that the larger the free trade area, the more benefit there it is to be within the area. The United States is the per-fect example of that. The huge trade between various parts of the United States is without any problems, and it is the best way to create wealth. I am certain that the consumers of
Po-land will be the first to benefit when PoPo-land joins the European Union. There will be certain economic interests that will be hurt, because they will have to compete with other parts of Europę that can produce goods more efficiently and more cheaply. And anybody who has a more expensive way of producing things in the free trade area is going to lose. But that is what makes a good economic situation. Work for the best, increase growth, and increase the wealth of the individual. Therefore, I am certainly an enthusiastic supporter of Poland joining the Eu-ropean Union. It is of enormous benefit to the United States for Poland to join the European Union. While it is true that there will be a slight-ly higher tariff barrier for goods sold f r o m t h e United States to Poland, than from France to Poland, the U.S will gain because we will have a country, Poland, that will be wealthier, grow-ing faster with better business opportunities in it. So, therefore, we - the United States - will gain enormously. i will give you a perfect ex-ample of this, which already exists - even be-fore Poland joins the European Union. Today,
Poland is changing many of its old laws - the laws which existed in the old communist era -much more rapidly than it would have if it was not thinking of joining the European Union. Thus, each new law has an economic impact, and many old laws are now being changed in order to fit requirements of the European Union. Amer-ican companies, that operate here in Poland, gain the advantage of those changes and mod-ernizations of Poiish law.
8. Is it difficult to get an American visa?
Weil, it depends why you are travelling. It is extreme!y difficult if you want to get a tourist visa and then spend three or four years work-ing in the United States.That is very difficult. If you are going as a tourist, or a business per-son, and you can prove that, you should have no difficulty. Now, that is easy to say.You know, and I know, that in fact many people are rejected.This is not only true in Poland. It is true in many countries. In fact, in Poland there has been a his-tory of people overstaying, when they were
al-lowed to stay in the United States, for many many years. We have laws that we have to en-force, that require us to ensure that any visa we give out will be given to people who will come back to Poland. We have found now, in the three years that I have been here, a significant
im-provement in the situation. When I first came here we were rejecting about 65 percent of the people who were asking for visas because, frank-ly, they did not prove that they were going to come back. We are now down in the mid 40 %.
So it is getting better. Now, I think that Poland has become such a iand of opportunity, that people are increasingly realising that they can do a lot more here in Poland than they can do in the United States. I have certainly seen from the number of young Americans who are
com-ing here, who have no Poiish roots, no ciocia or stryj, or anything like that, yet they are coming because it looks like a very interesting place of opportunity. You know the famous expression from American history: "Go west, young man", that is go west of the United States. I keep
say-"Your generation may be the luckiest one..."
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ing to people "Go east, young man". This is a wonderful place to do business.
9. What improvements do you think should be made in our Polish educational system to prepare Poland to cooperate with the EC na-tions and other international instituna-tions?
That is a much more difficult question to an-swer because I do not know much about edu-cation systems. However, let me tell you from what 1 have seen - more importantly - what the American investors have told me. The compa-nies that come here investing in Poland hire Poles. They tell me that it must be a superb education system that you already have because of the broad knowledgebase of Poles and the ability to learn new things very quickly. That comes, not just from character, but because of education. So I think the education system is not bad. I am sure there are ways that it can be made better and I am sure there are ways that teachers can be paid more. That is a problem in every country, certainly in the United States on a relative basis, but l am sure it is a problem here. I know that there is a question of paying teachers. There is only one answer to that,
per-haps two answers. You have to have a growing economy, which is throwing off more and more wealth at the local level. It is the local community which will be in charge of the schools. And teach-ers have to get organised to protect their interests and try to get more. That is what a democracy is all about. Frankly, I would rather be a teacher in this country than a doctor. To be a doctor in this country is a big problem because it is so expensive to take care of people and to obtain the equipment, which is a tremendous expense.
You have to compete against yourself if you want to be a doctor; you have to find money and equipment. I think that, with time, and if you fight for it, all your wages will grow be-cause this economy is going to be growing rap-idly for a number of years. I am a huge optimist on Poland's economy. Let me explain quickly why I think the economy is going to grow so fast.
So far it has grown very well and Poland is
catching up very quickly with western techinques.
In business, there are huge increases in pro-ductivity and there is a great deal of wealth be-ing created there. That will end but it is gobe-ing to be replaced rapidly by the next "engine" of growth in this country as far as I am concerned - that is the buiiding of new housing! Poland has a huge deficit in housing. Not only does the old housing need new investment to fix it up, but you also need a great deal of new housing.
That will be a major stimulus to futurę growth in Poland. Housing, in many countries, is al-ways a very important aspect of economic ac-tivity and it is only just beginning in Poland.
10. What other problems or changes do you think Poland must resolve to increase its eco-nomic growth?
Well, I do not know. The first, and biggest prob-lem is the telephone system. And I am speak-ing now as a Pole, not as an ambassador. It is the attitude and the approach of the management of large state enterprises. The worst example is Telekomunikacja Polska. It is their feeling that they have all of the answers, that they know
how to do things. It is the old era where the answer to any question is nie da rady. Yet, I see, in the three years I have been here, that this is slowly falling away. I will give you another ex-ample. You know they gave contracts last year, to two groups, for GSM cellular telephone licens-es. Well, that is fine. They are going ahead.
They are spending huge amounts of money in-vesting all over Poland, in order to have their
broadcast cells. And TP S.A. says, "OK. You need a system to interconnect with us, so that you can cali internationally. That means that we take money for each cali that is connected by TP S.A.!" So, the two companies went to the Ministry of Telecomunications. For months and months they argued to have a fair distribution of money. Finally, in April 1997, the Ministry of Telecomunications decided that there would be a fair system and told TP S.A. that it was to be a fair distribution because the GSM companies were spending money and needed to get a
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turn in order to pay for their investments. That is why I say the wonderful thing about Poland is that, ultimately, reason prevails in this country.
It may take many months, it may take a great deal of patience for a new businessman coming here trying to do business - Poiish or foreign.
Sooner or later the władze will do the right thing.
Sometimes it takes too much time and that is the frustration. It is the matter of time that it takes to change, in ways which would make a huge difference. I used to give a speech during my first two years here in which I wouid take half a glass of water and put it in front of me. I would ask the audience if the glass was halffull or hal-fempty. Poles would immediately tell me that it was halfempty. If I did the same thing in the United States everybody would tell me the glass was halffull. Today, I sense that the "halfemp-ty" attitude is beginning to change. I think it will change more than anything else. Poland is getting into NATO. The Russians have not start-ed an atomie war because you are getting into
NATO. In fact, the world is moving ahead. Po-land, for the first time in a thousand years, is in a place of security. That will make a big dif-ference. Once fear drops away, and you can look at the economic opportunities of Poland, it is unbelievable. That is why the people in this room are the luckiest Poles who were ever born. Clear-ly, your generation may be the luckiest one, the most fortunate generation.
11. Do Americans view a united Europę as a threat to the U.S position as the world guardian of peace?
When the war ended, we began to look at the way the world was being organized, or could be organized, particularly Europę. My predeces-sors in government and in business conclud-ed, in the 1940s and 50s, that the best thing that could possibly happen to the U.S. and its role in Europę would be for Europę to unitę.
First, politically and then economically. Itturned out that political unity was impossible, and it was
First, politically and then economically. Itturned out that political unity was impossible, and it was